Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

(Also yeah this isn't directly tulpa related, apologies, I wasn't sure where else to talk about it)

personally i think you are toyally correct @anise , it is something i brought up on this server multiple times

10:18 AM

i have been treated for did for almost 4 years and being part of a did community is the worst someone with the genuine disorder can do to themselves, there is a reason why there are no support groups for people with did in psychology

10:19 AM

there is also aspect of people developing what i call pseudo-did when they join did community out of curiosity. very very very few people are aware of the role narrative plays in your experience of plurality, if you convince yourself or are convinced by someone you have did you will start experiencing what you expect from it

10:20 AM

and tyen, as you mentioned, they will be looking for “truths” but they will not realise that very likely are just making stuff up

10:20 AM

i wrote enough “essays” about it here and don’t have time to go over it again right now, but in short i think you are 100% right (edited)

10:21 AM

yeah there is a lot of tulpamancy going on in the did community

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

i wrote enough “essays” about it here and don’t have time to go over it again right now, but in short i think you are 100% right (edited)

Yeah, I was mostly thinking of you when I brought this up, I came to pretty much the same conclusion from a different angle when I first stumbled into did spaces a few months ago

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

there is also aspect of people developing what i call pseudo-did when they join did community out of curiosity. very very very few people are aware of the role narrative plays in your experience of plurality, if you convince yourself or are convinced by someone you have did you will start experiencing what you expect from it

This is another thing. I think a TON of people have dissociated parts to a lesser extent, but might develop something that looks more like DID if they embrace this narrative

people convince themselves they have actual characters from books or actual people from other dimensions in their heads, did with all its trends online is just a different narrative that someone can build for themselves (edited)

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10:31 AM

did is not mainly about plurality, plurality is a symptom of other things going on for the person

10:32 AM

but for the internet, plurality and fantasy about their parts is the main thing about their did

10:32 AM

and in this context it is much much closer to tulpamancy as you said

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

did is not mainly about plurality, plurality is a symptom of other things going on for the person

I mean, yeah I experience a ton of dissociation, barely remember anything about anything, and my sense of self is all out of wack. But like, the idea of trying to 'discover' a presumed collection of people in my head beyond slightly dissociated states seems insanely dangerous to me lmao

10:34 AM

Idk, I really was like... are we sure this is all a good idea?

10:34 AM

Especially with the people claiming to be science based and doing what therapy would do

anise

I mean, yeah I experience a ton of dissociation, barely remember anything about anything, and my sense of self is all out of wack. But like, the idea of trying to 'discover' a presumed collection of people in my head beyond slightly dissociated states seems insanely dangerous to me lmao

All symptoms you described can be explained by many different things, with as “not so serious” things as sleep deprivation or disorganised attachment style

10:37 AM

everyone just jumps or is thrown into conclusion “it’s did!!” Without even being aware of the importance of differential diagnosis

10:38 AM

they also are like “do your research”, but they also are completely unaware of the medical student syndrome

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

All symptoms you described can be explained by many different things, with as “not so serious” things as sleep deprivation or disorganised attachment style

exactly haha

the whole community is a mess

10:39 AM

Basically unstable peoppe thinking the way of helping themselves is to surround yoursef with unstable people and enable each other with their unstability

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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

they also are like “do your research”, but they also are completely unaware of the medical student syndrome

I am a massive psychology nerd, and it's very clear to me that diagnoses overlap TONS, and something as vaguely defined as DID could be all kinds of things

10:39 AM

Another thing that made me so uncomfortable was the idea of like 'oh yeah your system is mega covert, which is why you've never thought about it until now and why you keep denying it'

10:40 AM

Like, yeah, but that's also a logic trap lmfao

anise

Especially with the people claiming to be science based and doing what therapy would do

yyyyyyeahhhhhh and they just ignore the fact the advice for care providers is to treat the patient as one person

10:40 AM

but nooo they just want to be enabled

10:40 AM

and if the therapist tries to slowly help the person integrate they have a mental breakdown

anise

Another thing that made me so uncomfortable was the idea of like 'oh yeah your system is mega covert, which is why you've never thought about it until now and why you keep denying it'

hate those people (edited)

10:41 AM

nothing worse than a person who has no idea and thinks they know everything and tries to help (edited)

Or like

10:42 AM

Hey, you were traumatised dramatically - you just don't remember it because you forgot!

10:42 AM

And the person is just looking for answers

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

and if the therapist tries to slowly help the person integrate they have a mental breakdown

Yeah

also all the “i want to come out and people recognise i am plura and treat all alters as different people”

10:45 AM

oh so you want the whole world to enable you and be your babysitter?

10:46 AM

maybe you should actually learn different defense mechanisms than dissociation then

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KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

oh so you want the whole world to enable you and be your babysitter?

oof

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

maybe you should actually learn different defense mechanisms than dissociation then

Honestly I just hope there's better research in the future, because as it stands right now I do believe dissociative disorders are real but like the research i've seen seems pretty bad and like, idk I just don't like structural dissociation as a concept

10:48 AM

And I want to know what tulpas are too, if that's even possible :p

people should learn responsibility, did gives too many excuses especially when people start blaming alters

10:49 AM

being enabled by everyone else and being “understood” as a system is just giving them more excuse

nothing wrong with being plural and it is a thing, its just how you think about it and how you handle it

anise

Honestly I just hope there's better research in the future, because as it stands right now I do believe dissociative disorders are real but like the research i've seen seems pretty bad and like, idk I just don't like structural dissociation as a concept

Mind you a lot of this perspective comes from me being obsessed with hypnosis for years so replacing one pseudosciency thing with another is hardly a good look haha

anise

Honestly I just hope there's better research in the future, because as it stands right now I do believe dissociative disorders are real but like the research i've seen seems pretty bad and like, idk I just don't like structural dissociation as a concept

structural dissociation is not even accepted contrary to what internet wants you to believe

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10:50 AM

i don’t care about the research tbh

10:50 AM

what matters to me is that there is treatment which works and gives results

10:50 AM

all the other fluff that is happening online is just stopping people from getting treatment or just slows the treatment down

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

and if the therapist tries to slowly help the person integrate they have a mental breakdown

That makes sense to me in the sense trust needs to be built prior to integration. If the parts see themselves as individual headmates then them taking offense towards integration makes sense. Being treated as individuals doesn't necessarily mean integration is off the table, especially since we have been integrating as a system over time. However, the secret people in your head and magical trauma stuff is clearly bullshit and I agree the therapist shouldn't encourage that. I agree that's a horrible mindset

A long kiss goodnight

That makes sense to me in the sense trust needs to be built prior to integration. If the parts see themselves as individual headmates then them taking offense towards integration makes sense. Being treated as individuals doesn't necessarily mean integration is off the table, especially since we have been integrating as a system over time. However, the secret people in your head and magical trauma stuff is clearly bullshit and I agree the therapist shouldn't encourage that. I agree that's a horrible mindset

'magical trauma' yeah ew

people online don’t even understand the nature of alters

tbf this is a general dislike of any online 'trauma' space, they're all... so weird

what they present is just tulpas

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

people online don’t even understand the nature of alters

Ok genuine question wdym by this?

10:54 AM

I'm super curious now

anise

Honestly I just hope there's better research in the future, because as it stands right now I do believe dissociative disorders are real but like the research i've seen seems pretty bad and like, idk I just don't like structural dissociation as a concept

When doing EMDR, that makes a whole lot more sense. But we describe our individual parts with that, not headmates who wish to identify as individuals

anise

Ok genuine question wdym by this?

it’s a big topic and i don’t have time for that rn (i’m at work) but people in rhe did community love pointing at dsm when it’s convenient for them, but get upset when they don’t like the wording and think they understand it better than the psychologists

10:59 AM

People online think did is like this:

10:59 AM

lol

A long kiss goodnight

When doing EMDR, that makes a whole lot more sense. But we describe our individual parts with that, not headmates who wish to identify as individuals

Wait, i'm really sorry im not sure i understand you here

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

it’s a big topic and i don’t have time for that rn (i’m at work) but people in rhe did community love pointing at dsm when it’s convenient for them, but get upset when they don’t like the wording and think they understand it better than the psychologists

Haha no worries, I appreciate your thoughts a ton

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

also all the “i want to come out and people recognise i am plura and treat all alters as different people”

I get what you're saying here, but I think if people were more accepting of DID in a healthy way that would be a good thing. If they want their headmates to be seen as individuals sure, not really another person's place to say otherwise unless they're a therapist/doctor. I agree it's not healthy to avoid your mental health problems though. A friend they trust encouraging them to go to therapy I think can go a long way

A long kiss goodnight

I get what you're saying here, but I think if people were more accepting of DID in a healthy way that would be a good thing. If they want their headmates to be seen as individuals sure, not really another person's place to say otherwise unless they're a therapist/doctor. I agree it's not healthy to avoid your mental health problems though. A friend they trust encouraging them to go to therapy I think can go a long way

I think the issue is that people treat it like the one true way

11:02 AM

At least, thats my observation from being in those spaces

anise

Wait, i'm really sorry im not sure i understand you here

EMDR is the therapy we're doing to resolve our trauma

11:02 AM

oops, sorry, I thought you were done (edited)

'If your therapist thinks you actually haven't got DID, GET A NEW ONE'

A long kiss goodnight

EMDR is the therapy we're doing to resolve our trauma

Ah right yeah sorry I get it now

anise

'If your therapist thinks you actually haven't got DID, GET A NEW ONE'

I agree, the anti-doctor sentimism really rubs me the wrong way

11:04 AM

And this idea you know better than your doctor

11:06 AM

There are times when a doctor is wrong and you should speak up, but they did go to med school for a very long time, and if they specialize in dissociative disorders they know their shit

11:09 AM

I wish there was more awareness on plurality because it's hard to build trust when you don't understand it. I think there are some people in the DID community who felt denied and disrespected because they had bad experiences. It doesn't excuse their bad behaviors, but the whole point of therapy is to change those bad behaviors in a productive way (?)

A long kiss goodnight

I agree, the anti-doctor sentimism really rubs me the wrong way

I mean I'm trans so like, I don't necessarily trust psychology or medicine as a matter of fact, but even so it's weird to me

A long kiss goodnight

I wish there was more awareness on plurality because it's hard to build trust when you don't understand it. I think there are some people in the DID community who felt denied and disrespected because they had bad experiences. It doesn't excuse their bad behaviors, but the whole point of therapy is to change those bad behaviors in a productive way (?)

I wish we had proper research to determine what is going on with plurality as a whole because I am pretty convinced at this point it's all very blurry, and that the dissociative disorders are more about the trauma part than the plural part

i can agree there i wish it was researched more too

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anise

I mean I'm trans so like, I don't necessarily trust psychology or medicine as a matter of fact, but even so it's weird to me

The DID/OSDD is in my eyes the LGBT+ community but on steroids

anyway none of this is really related to tulpas except you're all cool people and ironically felt more level headed than the DIDOSDD spaces im in

lol

Deleted User

i can agree there i wish it was researched more too

I would be so excited if we started to know like, what is going on for people w/ tulpas

11:15 AM

that would be so cool

i have theory but eh not incredible ones

anise

I wish we had proper research to determine what is going on with plurality as a whole because I am pretty convinced at this point it's all very blurry, and that the dissociative disorders are more about the trauma part than the plural part

I agree. If people can separate plurality from trauma and see them as two things that are sometimes related rather than one in the same, I think a lot of problems would be solved

i am also not good with this because i have been fluid identity wise since i can remember

11:16 AM

so idk what people with stable single self have going on

anise

I would be so excited if we started to know like, what is going on for people w/ tulpas

The Stanford study is still a thing. I don't think it is going to give any definitive answers at all, but hopefully it will be a starting point for future research

for me i like to think i am personifying these changes for some reason but it seems to benefit me. 'tulpa' is just one way for me to build up one of those

A long kiss goodnight

I agree. If people can separate plurality from trauma and see them as two things that are sometimes related rather than one in the same, I think a lot of problems would be solved

Yeah, idk, I'm just really not into the idea that plurality is inherently caused by trauma, rather than being a coping mechanism that is heavily associated with it

11:23 AM

But i guess we don't know yet

11:24 AM

At least based on what I've read it seems like there isn't much proof of causation

11:25 AM

And like, the fact that tulpas seemingly exist would at least make you think

Deleted User

so idk what people with stable single self have going on

True, that's very interesting. I think people hugely oversimplify identity and selfhood in general

deff

11:26 AM

even to me with many identities i often condense my understanding of the concept

Plurality as a coping mechanism in some shape or form is a really common reason to get into it in the first place. Given our trauma history, I probably wouldn't choose to be here if it wasn't for my trauma in the first place. But at the end of the day, we're not a normal non-traumatic system, even when we started out

i feel like i definitely cope better as plural

Deleted User

even to me with many identities i often condense my understanding of the concept

I mean it feels like how can you prove that seperate identities are, seperate

11:27 AM

It's all a bit mushy lmao

i can walk 'myself' through diffrnt treatments and re-parenting type things

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anise

I mean it feels like how can you prove that seperate identities are, seperate

i mean they are all a bit different even some contradict eachother i think plenty of them do actually but i see your point since people can have contradicting opinions

Gray | Shadow System

Plurality as a coping mechanism in some shape or form is a really common reason to get into it in the first place. Given our trauma history, I probably wouldn't choose to be here if it wasn't for my trauma in the first place. But at the end of the day, we're not a normal non-traumatic system, even when we started out

Tbh this is another interesting point, because although I sometimes question whether I've got some kind of dissociative disorder, the idea of plurality is appealing regardless